Justice For Jay

"Justice will only be achieved when those who are not injured by crime
feel as indignant as those who are."
- King Solomon

The "Other Side"

A brief introduction to this particular page....
Approximately one month after Jay was killed we got a foul post to Jay's Guestbook. We quickly learned that we would have to monitor the posts carefully.
We filtered our guestbook entries in an effort to prevent inappropriate material from being posted to the guestbook that was designed to remember and honor Jay Christopher Jarman.
Now that the men responsible for his death have been convicted, and because I just couldn't resist a recent comment stating that their entry "wont make you guestbook the voice of reason usually dont", I decided to develop a special page for those posts. Vengeful? Perhaps, but I think of all the options, this is a healthier outlet.

*WARNING* at least one of these posts contains extensive use of profanity.

These are in their original form, copied exactly as they were sent to us.


From: ANNIE
Email: UR666IM555@YAHOO.COM
Location: ST.ALBANS WV
URL: WWW.MYSPACE.COM/ANNIEBELL
I WILL START OFF BY SAYING THAT I AM SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS I KNOW HOW IT FEEL TO LOSE SOMEONE THAT MEANS MORE TO YOU THEN ANYTHING. BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO REALIZE THAT EVERYONE IS ON A PATH IN LIFE AND EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS, HAPPENS FOR A REASON, IT WAS JUST HIS TIME TO GO BUT YOU JUST CANT NOT! GO BALMING PEOPLE FOR STUFF LIKE THAT. DEATH IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN BLAME ON SOMEONE. AND YEAH JAY MAY BE DEAD BUT THE BOYS ALSO HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT FOR THE REST OF THERE LIVES. I ALSO HAVE A QUESTION IF THEY HIT JAY HOW THE FUCK IS THE SIDE OF THE CAR SMASHED IN? CAN YOU ANSWER ME THAT MUCH? SO NEXT TIME YOU DECIDE TO GO BLAMING DEATH ON PEOPLE STOP AND THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT DEATH WILL HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT ANYWHERE AT ANYTIME. IF THE ROLLS WOULD HAVE BEEN REVERSED WOULD YOU STILL BE BLAMING IT ON PEOIPLE? COULD WE SIT HERE AND BLAME THE DEATH OF THE BOYS ON JAY? HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT? ONCE YOU THINK ABOUT THAT THEN YOU WILL KNOW HOW WE ALL FEEL ABOUT YOU SITTING THERE POINTING FUCKING FINGERS WELL THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY TO YOU PEOPLE BECAUSE THIS IS JUST A WATSE OF MY TIME

Response:
In all fairness, since this is one of the few that included an email address, I did personally respond to this special person in a special way and since I did use quite a few choice and very colorful words, I'll refrain from posting my response here.
I did however visit her myspace page and was not at all surprised by the content. I do agree that she may want to cease the "watse" of her time and get to work on that G.E.D.


November 10, 2005
From: Holly
Location: South Charleston
yet I read all these terriable thing u say to my family,friends and most of all my sister and I don't appricate it one bit yes i know they arent bein very nice them selves but why bother. You people act like it was all Daniel and brandons falt and yet it wasent I seen and rode in that car after it happend and there is no way they ran in to him from the side so there for its just as much as his fault as it is theres and yes im sorry for ur loss for some odd reason i havent quite figured out yet but one day you all will realize its not just there fault and dont take this as an apology becuz its not and i really dont apprcate u saying those things about my sister because the last thing she would do is wine to any of you!!!!!!!!! Oh and u will also realize that daniel my brother inlaw and Brandon my ex- boyfriend are great people!!!!!

Response:
I can not even fathom why all of these people have "rode in that car after it happened".
I think I'd just like to beat this girl with a dictionary.


My apologies to all who have felt a little left out lately, this page started feeling a bit tedious to update, but the last round of idiotic postings renewed my enthusiasm to allow these people to embarrass themselves.

December 9, 2004
From: Alaura Harrison
Location: Poca, West Virginia
I'm sorry about your loss, I know what it's like to lose someone in an automobile related accident, but you've got to understand that hurting the familes of the passenger (Mark Daniel Urban) is not helping anything. I was one of Daniel's friends. I had him over to my house and hung out with him very often. I understand that you hurt, and that your loss is great, but Daniel was just the passenger. He had no control over the situation. Niether did Brogan really, it was just an acciedent. They ran because they were a couple of scared teenagers. I'm sure you might have done the same in their situation. Yes, it was Daniel's car, yes, he could've told Brogan he wasn't allowed to drive, but if Jay had been sitting at home he still would've passed on because God had a plan and it was his time to go. I lost my brother in a car accident 2 years ago and he was the passenger. Daniel was just a fun loving kind of guy, it hurts me the way you all make him over to be some sort of super evil. Again, I'm VERY sorry for your loss, but please, stop hurting the families, they're hurting enough knowing that their sons were involved in a crime of this size and then being sent to jail. Please consider our feelings.
I'm sincerely sorry for your loss

Response:
I am sorry for you loss, there are far too many of us suffering senseless tragedies.
If Urban's family is suffering it is because of Urban. Brogan and Urban, either one or both, could have made the decision to stop and render aide, but they BOTH chose not to. Urban said himself that he yelled "GO!" and Brogan took off. They had many hours to think about that decision as they fled back home to WV and still they did not stop. They were concerned only about themselves.
Urban is in jail because he violated the guidelines of his probation. Trust me when I say that if we had control over it, he would have gotten a lot more than probation and his family could be just as damn mad as they wanted to be about it. After all, he's just in jail, how would they feel if someone had killed him?!
The only thing that I've "got to understand" is that Brogan and Urban killed Jay.
As far as "hurting the families", I am truly appalled. They have their sons. Their sons destroyed my family and their friends continually send us crap such as this. Don't you think that WE have been hurt enough?

November 30, 2004
From: Katie
Email: En3myWith1n@netscape.net
Location: Saint Albans, West Virginia
Hello there, I'm honestly sorry for the loss of your brother. I recently lost a friend due to drunk driving. However, I notice and do not appreciate that you celebrate Daniel Urban's incarceration. For one, I knew Daniel personally. He would never INTENTIONALLY hurt someone so innocent. Now, what I find funny about this, is that Daniel was not driving. He had no control over the car. Yes, the driver made a terrible choice, but don't we all make bad choices in our lives at one point or another, whether it involve another human life or not? It was a completely involuntary thing for Daniel. Yes, that would make him an accomplice, but no, I know for a fact that he would never do such a thing like this just to do it, like you have so portrayed in this website. Just like Jay, Daniel has many people that care about him. Go ahead, put me into "The Other Side", personally I don't care. Daniel may have "gotten what he deserved", but Daniel is surely not the heartless person you portray him as. Do you not believe that Daniel is just as scarred as your family is?

Response:
Your post sounds a lot like the previous post, so I won't repeat myself with the response.
You say that Urban had no control over the car. He took over driving and crossed several state lines to avoid responsibility before arriving back home in WV. He had control then. He, very voluntarily, continued to flee the scene.
As I have said before, Urban is suffering the consequences of HIS OWN actions. Any scars he may have are of no concern to me.


November 30, 2004
From: Abbatha
Email: pencileadsyringe@aol.com
Location: St. Albans, West Virginia
I'm very sorry for your loss,I have recently just lost a very close friend in the result of drunk driving. But is blaming really the answer?... I personally knew Daniel Urban myself,he was pratically a big brother to me. I mean, for one, Daniel wasn't even driving, so I don't see how he is a "maggot", and for two, I know he would not do something so horrible on purpose. Daniel was a really sweet guy, and he was always looking out for me. I know exactly how you guys feel with this, but I've accepted the fact that my friend that I just recently lost is gone now, but I'm not blaming the person who was driving, and I mean, yes it's wrong what happen, but must you guys make a celebration of it?...

Response:
I read your post and I don't even know where to begin.
"Is blaming really the answer"? What exactly is the question?
Blame is irrelevant. Accountability is more appropriate.
It's quite obvious that, no, you do not "know exactly how we feel with this". Obviously you have no clue how we feel about this.
There is no celebration. Urban has violated every element of his probation. Are we glad that SC isn't letting him get away with that? Absolutely

November 30, 2004
From: Does it really matter?
Too bad Daniel Urban is a good guy and none of you people know the real him. He'd never hurt anyone on purpose. I'm sorry for your loss, I currently too lost someone. But Daniel Urban wasn't the driver and Daniel is a good guy. So you need to consider all the details. And I see some people saying some of the comments are disrespectful, well some are some of the pages on your site. Have a nice day.

Reponse:
Do YOU know the "real him"?!
He's been charged with destruction to property, trespassing, writing worthless checks, 2 charges of battery, and mis-prison of a felony for his part of the fatal hit-and-run that killed Jay Jarman.
Good guy?! Get real.
"Need to consider all the details"? Based on that statement, I can only assume that you're not privy to all of the details yourself, otherwise you'd realize what a ludicrous statement that is.

November 9, 2004
From: me
Email: me@yahoo.com
Location: st. albans wv
i think its so messed up that all you can do is bash lisa and her daugher you have no idea what is going on with her. yea she didnt loose anyone dealing with death but she did loose someone. and must you forget DANIEL WAS NOT DRIVING maybe he could have made brandon stop but he didnt your brother is gone and im sorry about that. but lets try to remember we are people here none of us here killed your brother. i wonder if this will make the "other side" probably not, not any of my comments or anyone elses comments dont make it.

Response:
This one struck me as particularly humorous.
Firstly, let me say that I had stopped updating this page until I got this moronic tidbit. I had no idea that these people would feel so shortchanged by sparing them any embarrassment. My bad.
I think it's obvious that this page was created to demonstrate the ignorance, backward thinking and complete disregard for human life that we have been subjected to by these posts. This person wants to be sure that they're included!!!!! Well, here it is, your Warhol moment for everyone to read....
"Lets try to remember" that Brandon Brogan and Daniel Urban killed my brother, no one has ever said any different. I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that statement, but then, your logic typically has that effect.
As far as "bashing" Lisa or her daughter goes, cry me a river. She wrote to US (trust me, her email will follow). Let me also mention here that the majority, if not all, of these posts fail to include a valid email address, so there's no way for us to reply to them personally.Somewhat cowardly, in my opinion, to speak so freely without allowing for a response.
I did not "bash" Lisa or her daughter. I can only assume that you are referring to an entry on my own personal section of this site where I wrote about....never mind, I'll include that here on this page as well. I mean no harm when I say that I don't really care what's going on with Lisa, that's her business. The only reason that our paths crossed in any way is because she felt compelled to write to us. She should have written to Daniel Urban instead. He is responsible for being in jail now, not us. We didn't prevent him from complying with his probation. Her plea to us was about as appropriate as me writing to you and asking that you feel bad and responsible for me because I got a traffic ticket.


November 5, 2004
From: unknown
ok i know you really miss him and all but there is nothing you can do now...he is gone and is not coming back just put it on the bright side you are goin to see him one day...i lost someone very close to me he may not have been my son but this person has always been there for me...look at it this way i have forgave that person who done this tragedy to me because i would like to join the person i lost when i die too!!! i have something else to say you are all crying over this and still are you doin sumthin bout it??? well i know you want brogan in jail but i dont think hes goin...i know brogan not well but i know him and i think he is a really good kid... he also did not want to leave the accident when it happened it was not his car it was his friends...his friend told him to go...okay unlike other ppl i dont think anyone was intoxicated except for the passanger maybe...brogan doesn't do that stuff and just to also tell you even though i may sound a lil rude im not meaning it i mean everthing i say just dont take it wrong ok well just to tell you i go to church and i will be praying for you!!!

Response:
"Put it on the bright side"?! You've GOT to be kidding me. Nothing about this post merits a response.

October 26, 2004
From: Lisa Keliher
I DONT KNOW MAYBE DANIEL GOT WHAT HE DESERVED. BUT MY DAUGHTER DID NOT GET WHAT SHE DESERVED. LIFE IS NOT FAIR IN MANY WAYS. BUT its LIFE, I CAN DEAL WITH THE REALITY, BUT TRY EXPLAINING TO 18 MONTH OLD little girl where her daddy is when shes lying there crying for him, that i can not handle. And for that pain i see in her big blue eyes i truely feel for jays children and his wifeshe did is only a baby she doesnt understand whats going on wheres her daddy thats all she cares about. i know that me writing this probally makes no never mind to any of you but it gives me a peice of mind. So next time your adding a entry to your web site and telling the world how marys father is going to spend the next few years of her life in jail. Just remember to you he may be the monster who took your son you husband, those kids father. remember that he him self(this monster) is also a son, a husband, and most importantly a father. i hope you belive justice has been served! thank you for your time

Response:
In all fairness, here's the post to my "mirror page" regarding this correspondence:
We got an email from a girl who is apparently the mother of one of his children. She complained to us that while "maybe Daniel got what he deserved", her "daughter did not get what she deserved". That may be true, but I can surely, and with conviction, tell you that Jay CERTAINLY didn't get what he deserved and WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT???? Mark Daniel Urban and Brandon Lee Brogan. Why this girl feels compelled to whine to us about her baby's daddy being in jail is beyond me. I'm sure that Urban losing his license for failure to pay his many traffic tickets isn't his fault either? I guess it's someone else's fault that he failed his drug test? Daniel Urban is solely responsible for finding his sorry ass in jail.

She also said, "So next time your adding a entry to your web site and telling the world how marys father is going to spend the next few years of her life in jail. Just remember to you he may be the monster who took your son you husband, those kids father. remember that he him self(this monster) is also a son, a husband, and most importantly a father. i hope you belive justice has been served!"
It just appalls me to no end every time I read some crap like that. We're supposed to feel sorry for him??? He KILLED my brother...and it's not like Jay will just be gone for a few years. He is gone forever. I can only hope that perhaps this girl will take advantage of Urban's absence and make some positive choices for her daughter. Urban has continued to break the law without a single thought of his daughter, sounds like a fine daddy to me.
And for the record, no, I don't think justice has been served.

October 20, 2004
From: Bullshit
Email: TAB73069@aol.com
Location: St. Albans, WV
I am a very close friend of Daniel Urban, I have lived near him for the last 10 years. Yes he is a little air headed, but damn, he wasnt even driving the car. And another thing, how in the hell did they hit his bike, when it is plain and clear to see that his very nice car was hit on the side. I rode in that car not long after he came back to SA, and their was no damage to the back or the front of the car, so how did they hit him? And you have to look at it this way, Bikers love speed, risk, danger, and all that crap. So he should have been watching out as well. Yes, it was Daniel's car, but he wasnt driving, why?....why is he taking full responsibility for this? His daughter will now grow up not knowing her father. Goodbye everone!

(wee, a real email address)

Response:
Dear Bullshit (aka Teresa),

There is no damage to the back or the front of the vehicle because Urban and Brogan violated Jay's right of way and pulled in front of him. I find it hard to believe that you would be interested in riding around in Urban's "very nice car" after it had been involved in someone's death.
Seems to me that your friend, good ole boy, Daniel Urban would be the one that loves "speed, risk, danger, and all that crap"....he's the one with careless and reckless charges on his driving record, he's the one that now has had his license revoked, he's the one charged with battery, writing bad checks and he's the one that's currently IN JAIL!!!! Further more, I don't have to look at this in any way other than he had a hand in killing my brother and now he's being held accountable. He'd still be a shit of a father whether he were in jail or not. His daughter would never know him anyway.
Also, I wouldn't recommend riding around in an uninsured vehicle, especially with someone charged with careless and reckless driving (not to mention, no valid driver's license to speak of), lest you be injured, killed or have an unlimited bankroll to pay your own medical expenses in the event of a horrible disfiguring accident. Keep in mind that funerals are very expensive as well.

This one even wrote back!
October 20, 2004
Email: TAB73069@aol.com
It was not Teresa who made the letter, it was Timmy Welch. I used her s/n to make the letter. As i said i am sorry for your loss and i am sorry for what i said, i didnt think it all the way through. I have known daniel for a long time and he is a friend of mine. Yes, he makes a lot of bad choices. I was just upset by the things people were saying about him and they dont even know him. I appologize for this, it wont happen again.
Just a note here...I didn't write this guy back. But, if you read his original post, no, he never said "i am sorry for your loss".

September 10, 2004
From: alyssa eastwood - blueyedbaby917@aol.com
Comments: hey i am very sorry for what has happened with you and your son! well i have known brandon for a very long time and he is like my brother! alot of people know brandon and as you can tell everyone cares alot about him and they also speak nothing but good about him so if you can understand this and if you cant i can understand that but i dont think that brandon knew or even meant to kill your son and as a matter of fact as soon as he heard that jarman had died he returned! did you know that your son was not dead untill after he entered the hospital so if i was you i would be complaining about how the hospital did not save your son it wasnt brandons fault that he passed away! actually if you die did you know that it is just your time to go! besides i would be happy that your son is not in this dreadful world! i hope you also know that the world may end soon and god says plainly that forgive others and i will forgive you as well! my advice to you is to forgive and forget and you will see him soon! my prayers go out to you and your family that you will forgive so you will see your son again! ~alyssa~ sorry

September 07, 2004
From: Mandamarie - warwick ny - blueyedbaby917@aol.com (same email address as above)
Comments: My deepest sympathy will always be with you for in the past few years my Grandfather, Great-Grandmother, and My cousin were taken away. However my sympathy is also with Brandon. Your probably wondering why, and that is because your heart will mend and you will find daily tasks that will give you relief from your sorrow. Brandon however is constantly reminded day in and day out by the simplest little remarks or commercials or even cartoons that he was a murderer. and though this may be hard for you to understand, but he could have completely gotten away with the crime BUT CHOOSE NOT TO because unlike most ignorant teenagers Brandon decided to take responsibility for his actions. And I think that for a scared 17 yr old that is a very mature thing to do considering that he could have legally gotten away with it. I do not consider it fair to call him a murderer for he is not. Jay was killed on accident, by two inexperienced teenage drivers. If you cant refrain from hating Brandon for the rest of your earthly life then I think that you will not get to experience your after life with your Brother. Though this may seem eccentric I think you should consider forgiving Brandon and accepting that Jay is in a better place. May peace be with you and may God bless you and your family.

As you can see this person was persistent! Not only did she post here twice, but she also butted into a message board devoted to biker's rights and continued to post many ugly and derogatory messages, and even went on to threaten biker's as a whole. I'll refrain from posting my personal email response to her (him/it/whatever), as it was quite ugly. I strive to handle myself in a dignified fashion for Jay and the future of his website, but even I have my limits.

Mar 29, 2004 at 14:16 [EST]
From: kenny bailey - st albens.wva - imaphatboy91@yahoo.com
Comments: i think that your son was very intoxicated when this aciden happened.brandon was one of my friends.he was VERY nice

Response:
Kenny,

Jay was unable to leave the scene of the accident, unlike your "nice" friend Brandon. Toxicology Screenings were performed on Jay and were found to be negative for both drugs and alcohol. In case you do not understand what that means, Jay was tested for drug alcohol and the tests were negative. That means that there is PROOF that Jay was not intoxicated. when this ACCIDENT happened. Anyone that knew Jay, knew that he didn't drink at all and never did any sort of drugs, so this came as no surprise to us.
I suggest you choose your friends more carefully. Brandon may have been nice, and in all honesty, I don't care. He killed my brother and left him in the street to die. That's not "very nice".
It is on the website in several places that Jay was PROVEN to be clean of any drugs and alcohol, I'm not sure which part of that you don't understand, but even if I didn't know my own brother, I'd trust the toxicology reports over your opinion any day.
Sincerely,
Kimberly Jarman

Feb 13, 2004 at 02:22 [EST]
From: Lisa Keliher- st.albans west virgina
Comments: i am very sorry for the loss that your family has gone through.I could not imagine how you feel, as a mother myself I give you my grief and pray for you and your family to find peace out of all of this.I am a close friend to both Brandon and Daniel. im from St. Albans Wva (the other side as u like to call it)I have known Brandon for atleast 5 years. He is a very kind person and very caring . And i hope that you do not think of him as a murder or Daniel for that matter neither of them did this on purpose.As im sure you know this. They are both very caring people, who were at the wrong place at the wrong time. At the time of the accident I was engaged to Daniel and carring his 8 month old little girl.i have known Daniel for 3 years and since ive known him he has always been good to me. Up until the time of the accident, it has changed our lives in such a wasy it will never be the same. And i Know that your lives will never be the same as well. Im sorry for that i appologize for everthing that has happened. I pray everynite that Daniel and Brandon find there place in this world. And i pray for you and your family i hope that you can find peace in your hearts. I know that you would never be able to forgive Daniel or Brandon. I do not ask that of you, i only ask that you try and understand how this has been for our families.. My heart goes out to you and your family

[I realized as I was about to email this letter that she didn't include an authentic email address, so the reply is simply posted here.]

Thank you for your apology. Unfortunately, it really should come from Brandon Brogan and Daniel Urban. However, your condolences are heard.
I am not comforted to learn that you are a close friend of Brogan AND Urban. We had a gut feeling that maybe Brogan just "fell in with the wrong crowd", apparently not, it must have been a conscience choice and one that he has chosen to perpetuate.
Just for clarity's sake, "the other side", is actually a term that someone else had chosen, one of your fellow St. Albanians.
While we are aware the initial "accident" may not have been intentional, the decision to leave the scene with my brother's lifeless body desperately hanging onto life, certainly was.
My brother was in the wrong place at the wrong time. At the time of the accident he had a loving wife of 8 years, 2 sons that thought he hung the moon, 2 dogs who adored him, a mother and father who were incredibly proud of him, a sister who could never imagine not having him in her life and a world of friends who would forever miss him. We were a very close family.
His life was more than being a Harley Davidson service manager. He and Vickie (his wife) worked and planned their day around their responsibilities of running the boys (Jaybird, age 17 and Joey, 13) not only to and from schools, but Jaybird to lacrosse practice and Joey to basketball practice and then, of course, all their church activities. Jay would usually be working for the church, helping a friend with a mechanical crisis for extra money or spending his night hours back at his workplace working on his dream motorcycle "Spike". Vickie was also working overtime to try to get ahead on their financial commitments. They were a team.....it takes teamwork to make a family work. A life destroyed....a family destroyed.
Thank you for not asking us for forgiveness....in my opinion, that is between them and their God (or whatever Higher Power they may know, or come to know). However, I do not understand why we are continually asked to understand how this has been for "your" families.
We were struggling through life, as families do, before this tragedy. Jay was working hard to support his family. He was always there when I called for advice about my own little wimpy motorcycle and he always offered to go riding with his "big sister". He was always on call when mom needed advice about her car or help with a project. Him and Dad were always chatting about engines and all kinds of stuff. We'd have our family gatherings and celebrations and we were SO proud of him when he called to tell us all about the bike that he'd built that made "Easy Rider" magazine. We were a normal family......until he went to Myrtle Beach. Brandon Brogan and Daniel Urban made a grotesque intrusion into our lives. They ripped an integral part of our family away from us. Why should we be the least bit concerned about what their actions brought upon their own lives? They brought repercussions onto themselves, as well as us. They have made our lives a living hell.
I feel for you, and I really don't mean that as condescending as it may sound. While I know only one aspect of these two, I realize that you know another. I hope that you've given the forward progression of your life some serious thought. You have not only yourself to think about, but now you have a daughter and the responsibility of molding her into a woman that you and your family can be proud of. While we understand that a lot of what we have heard about Urban could possibly be "idle gossip", based on what we've seen, it seems true to character.
Thank you for writing. Yours has, by far, been the most consoling from anyone that is apparently as close to them as you are.
In all sincerity,
Kim, Jay's sister
Feb 05, 2004 at 03:09 [EST]
From: Loni Bailey- St. Albans -
Comments: "Hello I feel for you and your family very much, it is such a tradgedy to lose sumone you love ecspecially your son. Becoming a new mother my self I understand your point of view, but being a friend of Brandon's I can understand his point of view also. See you have portrayed him as a heartless coward that ran your son down in the street for fun but that's not the way it was. You are aware of that as well as you are aware of the fact that he didnt even have to come back. He could have stayed here in WVa and never have returned and then you would have never known who it was that killed him. You act as if he is trying to run out on his responsibiltys but he is not he has returned with the intent to take responsibility for what he done. There is a lot to be said about what he done because he was the one that hurt your child but you have forgotten that that young man has a mother and she cares for him as you did your son so you making him look worse than he does and he is convicted and goes to jail then you have taken her son away from her because of and accident and you helped do it so then does that not make you any better than what you say he was? Does that make you feel better knowing that somewhere out the after tommorow there will be another mother grieving for her son and to know that you had your hand in the cookie jar to help? Grief hurts but why subject another human being to it because of your pain? Is that make you feel better when you get down to the nitty gritty of it that he is in jail over a traffic accident it dont bring back your son and somone elses heart hurts because of it. Is this what we have came down to in america? I know him and I know how this has effected him personally and ya know you have no idea what he feels and to call him heartless and a murderer is a little callus when you have ni idea that the boy grieves as you do but you cant see that for you refuse to. GoodBYe. LBB, Loni Michelle If u have a comment you may send them to me as you have my e-mail address"

Response:

Yes, it is a tragedy to lose someone you love, there is no denying that.
I'm glad that Brandon Brogan has a support system that understands his "point of view".
We have never said that he killed my brother for "fun", but I do confirm that, yes, I do, feel that in that moment, he made a conscious decision to leave my brother dying in the street, after flying over the hood of the car that Brandon Brogan was driving...probably directly within his "point of view", and that, was a heartless and cowardly act.
I have heard many times that Brandon Brogan "didn't have to come back". He also didn't HAVE to leave my brother Jay there in the first place. Because Brandon Brogan found a conscience and did decide to turn himself in should not relinquish him from being held accountable for his actions. I will agree that, after the fact, there was a moment in time when he decided to take responsibility for his actions.
No, I have not forgotten that Brandon Brogan has a mother. You say "you have taken her son away from her because of and accident and you helped do it so then does that not make you any better than what you say he was?" I cannot begin to tell you how offensive of a statement that is. WE, my dear, have done nothing. We did not hit and kill someone, WE did not leave the scene of a fatal accident, WE have done nothing but stand up for the rights of my brother who can no longer speak for himself. How dare you!
All we have asked is that Brandon Brogan and M. Daniel Urban be held accountable.
"A little callus" [sic]??? If someone ran over your brand new baby and caused your baby's death, ran home without even taking a moment to call 911, would you NOT call THAT callous or would you simply refer to it as a "traffic accident" and be oh so very happy that the driver found some decency to admit to his guilt.
Brandon Brogan "grieves as you do"?! I don't think so. Does he regret it, I'm sure he does. There is no way possible, regardless of how remorseful he may be, that he could possibly grieve as we do. Again, how dare you.
Give that some thought before stepping on your soapbox and imagine how THAT must feel coming from the friend of one who is still able to wake up and take a breath every morning.
We appreciate that Brandon Brogan found it within himself to turn himself in and be held accountable, but that's something that any human being should do, I hardly think it merits any awards.

*** Mom also replied to the above person.**
Response of Feb 06, 2004 at 8:55 [EST]
He didn't hurt my child, he KILLED my child. No one, no one can feel my pain! How dare you!

Date: February 15, 2004 4:34:51 PM EST
To: Brenda Jarman
Subject: Re: and he grieves as I do
How dare me right? I was standing up for my friend that I know and i love as yu did your son you can not tell me that if you was here and I was there that if you heard the way that you have defaced that by that you would not be a little offended because I know you would be lying. Everything was taken to an extent that was not needed at all ya know. You have painted a heartless coward that was all hopped up on drugs and was drunk and you cant deny that and Brandon does not drink and he does not do drugs but do you stop to think about that no. I have a son so I can understand hw you feel so dont think I am just spouting off at the mouth please! But there is a certain amout of things that you have said that werent true. I give you all the support in the world because you have taken a burden that know I couldnt bear but you will never understand my point and I guess you wont understand myne.
Love @ prayers,
Loni Michelle

Response:
Yes. How dare you. Right. Be conscious and aware of who you decide to stand up for. We have not "defaced" anyone. Brandon Brogan painted his own canvas.We have merely stated the facts. We have never said that Brogan was "hopped up on drugs and was drunk", we simply stated that in his inhuman cowardly decision to leave the scene, that we can never know the truth for sure. Are you suggesting that we take his word for it?! Surely you jest! Can we deny that "Brandon does not drink and he does not do drugs"?! Sure we can!!! The fact is that we do not know. He was with a person that admitted, IN COURT, that he had marijuana in his system. Why should we be asked to deny the possibility he may have been under the influence of drugs, and/or alcohol, exists? The charges he was convicted under assume both alcohol and/or drugs. Again, just because you happen to have a son, does not in any way give way that you may "understand hw you feel" [sic]. Did Brandon Brogan kill your son? Has someone killed your son? Did they think so little of his pain and his life that they left your son's mangled body bleeding in the middle of an intersection? If they did, then you have my support and my condolences because only a mother who has buried their baby can know this kind of pain. How dare you? I dare you this, I dare you to state what we've said that "isn't true". Kindly, keep your support.


Feb 05, 2004 at 02:54 [EST]
From: MaryJo Bailey- St.Albans Wva -
Comments: "I was reading this and Im very dissapointed in the information in the editorial tribute. I met Brandon Brogan 9 months ago and the man you have portrayed in this article is nothing like the man I know and love. I have seen nothing out of him that proves he drinks smokes or does drugs,or that he is the heartless killer you portray. He was caught in a unfortunate accident and made the wrong decision, but he is certainly not a killer. I know this probably wont make you guestbook the voice of reason usually dont but I am just another citizen of St. Albans that thinks the other side should be heard also. Mary Jo Bailey You can also e-mail me with any comments I will listen to them."

Response of Feb 06, 2004 at 4:14pm [EST]
First of all, yes, you are correct in that this "won't make" the guest book, but not because you consider it the "voice of reason", but because it's inappropriate content for that section of Jay's website.
"Disappointment" is certainly an emotion that we apparently both share. We "met" Brandon Brogan nine months ago as well. He was the driver of the car that killed my only brother. He then made a decision to leave the scene of the accident while my brother was still alive and lying in the street, refusing to render aide of any kind. Brandon Brogan is responsible for the death of my brother. Because he left the scene of the accident and did not see fit to return until six days later, it was impossible to know whether or not he was drinking or under the influence of drugs at the time of the accident even though he and Daniel Urban had just left one of the most popular bars in the area.
"Heartless killer", I suppose the term is up for personal interpretation. I personally think that hitting an animal, leaving it to die an agonizing and painful death without even having the decency to remove it from the street is pretty heartless. Leaving a human being in the same manner certainly seems to merit the same adjective. "Killer", one who kills or has killed, therefore, "heartless killer", I don't think that's completely unmerited in this case.
I am quite aware that Brandon Brogan has friends and family that love him and care for his well-being. I hope that he is grateful for that every day of his life.
I appreciate the fact that you want "the other side" to be heard, trust me, we have heard much. We have had periods of being bombarded with emails from "friends" of B. Brogan and D. Urban's, that were inappropriate, profane, illiterate, and completely disrespectful to my brother. By the way, no surprise to Jay's family, Jay's blood tests were negative for drugs and alcohol, this is a fact. The emails accused him of being drunk, on drugs and even went so far as to wish "AIDS" on my entire family.
Speaking only for myself, I do believe that Brandon Brogan made a horrific unforgivable mistake and I think that he got mixed up with and gave his allegiance to some really bad people. He seems remorseful and I think that he will regret the decision he made that morning for the rest of his life. Every day of our lives we will remember and live with the grief caused by the decision that Brandon made.
Entry of Jun 22, 2003 at 16:19 [EST]
From: Unknown - St.Albans,West Virginia - blank@blank.net
Comments: Well lets put it this way, How does a V6 mustang hit 45 miles per hour in less than 20 feet, WELL! it didn't as a matter of fact, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE unless NOS was ran through the motor and tests can prove that no NOS or boost of any type was on the CAR, And why wasn't Jay wearing a helmet, Why didn't jay have a speedometor, and why the hell would TWO SCARED boys stop after knowing there is 250,000 bikers 200 per block, there, DRUNK Bikers see things differently, IF THEY DID STOP! they could have been killed, as a matter of fact the boys were crossing the intersection at 10 miles per hour or LESS IT'S IMPOSSIBLE for them to have been speeding across that intersection you dumbasses, think about it, they WERE ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE ROAD in the final lane of leaving the road when they were struck, i'll bet money that Jayo Tomato was 3 times over the legal limit the driver of the mustang has ZERO NONE NO history of fucking using drugs or anything else of that matter THEY GOT SCARED, you're fuckin dumb asses, you don't know what happen and THERE IS NO FUCKING way a motorcycle would cave the dash of a FORD MUSTANG in at 35 miles a hour the hole right side of the car was caved in, and it has a 2 and a half inch round 4 foot steel pole reinforcement in the doors of the stang, you all have no idea, Jayo was speeding and DIDN'T EVEN ATTEMP TO PUT ON HIS BREAKS! atleast he would have had time to hit the breaks unless he was speeding IT WAS A FUCKING ACCIDENT LET IT GO! JESUS CHRIST! they DID NOT MEAN TO HURT HIM it's LIFE! accidents happen, Atleast they turned them selfs in, you don't know the people involved in the accident and what they went through the driver of the car was totally mentally devistated and the passenger got all the teeth knocked loose in his head and thought he was gonna die all because some dumbass had to be speeding on a motorcycle, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AND A BUNCH OF DRUNK FUCKERS ARE ALL THE INFORMATION YOU HAD ON WHAT HAPPEN THEY THOUGHT THE CAR WAS A BLACK ECLIPSE FOR CHRISTS SAKE yeah, shows how good the witnesses are, yeah 45 miles a hour in 20 feet in a v6, yeah yeah yeah BULL SHIT wake up and realize what the hell happened it was a accident the boys are sorry they didn't mean nor would they ever hurt anyone, SO GO TO HELL quit the slandering bull shit, and let it fucking go

I was completely shocked when I saw this post to the guestbook.
I was out of town and away from my computer and just wanted it DOWN before other family members saw it. I managed to remove it temporarily until I got back home to make some permanent adjustments.
I'd like to point out a couple of things about this particular entry. I've removed the actual email addresses from the other posts to respect their privacy. This post includes the email address that they provided....obviously a non-existent address which prevented anyone from responding. ALSO, in the space that allows the user to provide a hyperlink to their webpage, this person provided a link to www.rotten.com. That, in and of itself, was so vile and repugnant, that there are no words to express how it made me feel to read it.
Surely as you read this post, you gather that this person has some "inside information". This person certainly seems to know quite a bit about Urban's mustang. The way this person describes the car sounds queerly similar to the description that Urban gave in his verbal statement to SC police. Is this post from Mark Daniel Urban, Jr., I have no proof one way or the other, make your own conclusion.
This person seems to blame Jay for his own death because he was not wearing a helmet. SC law does not require that a helmet be worn for drivers over the age of 21.
Needless to say, since Jay was unable to leave the scene of the accident, his blood tests prove that there was no alcohol or drugs in his system. Jay just wasn't a drinker, not even a social drinker. Also, because of the evidence at the scene, there is proof that he was not speeding.
I can only wish that the passenger, M. Daniel Urban "got all the teeth knocked loose in his head". "He thought he was gonna die" and supposedly peed on himself, as he told the police detectives. My brother DID die. He DIED....and this person wants us to "go to hell ...and let it go".
Oddly enough, once this person realized that their post was not included in our guestbook, they sent no less than five posts that simply stated, "I hope you all get AIDS".
I find it quite interesting the mentality of these people. They want to turn this around and blame Jay for his own death, wish even more hardship and anguish on my family, and want us to simply "let it go". I think they should spend more time in school studying English and grammar than partying it up in Myrtle Beach.

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